Dangerous Logic Behind Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Jesus


By Prayson Daniel

Refuting Jehovah’s Witnesses Understanding Of A Created Jesus.

In this article I am going to point the absurdity of Jehovah’s Witnesses understanding and claim of who Jesus is. In doing so, I will give a simple logic lesson so that you, my readers, may be able follow and remember my argument.(Of cause you do not have to remember the Latin names)

Arguing by Reductio ad Absurdum

“If Jesus is an angel, then he is no better than the fallen angel, the Devil”

Reduction ad Absurdum is a Latin name which simply means “reduced to absurdity”. It is the method to follow if we want to prove that a certain statement S is false:

  1. First assume that S is true.
  2. From the assumption that it is true, prove that it would lead to a contradiction or some other claim that is false or absurd.
  3. Conclude that S must be false.

If you are familiar with logic, then you can see that this is classical valid modus tollens,(another Latin word). Modus tollendo tollens which means the way that denies by denying. Example:

  1. If P then Q.(major premise)
  2. Not-Q(minor premise)
  3. Therefore Not-P(Conclusion)

Jehovah’s Witnesses Understanding of Jesus:

Jehovah’s Witnesses believes in a created Jesus.  Here is how WatchTower.org reasons on the question “Who is Michael the Archangel?”

Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

In a nutshell, Jesus is an angel.  I have bolded some paragraphs to mark other wrong reasoning(Fallacies) in the watchtower.org article to which I will lightly touch at the end of this article. But for now, lets assume that Jehovah’s Witnesses are right namely Jesus is an angel and that their logical argument is sound(which is not).

Dangerous Logic Behind Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Claim

  1. If Jesus is an angel,then Jesus is no better than the Devil.
  2. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is an angel.
  3. Therefore according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is no better than the Devil.

Now, the beauty of Logic is that if all premises are true, and more plausible than their negation(opposite), and the conclusion follows from the premises then the argument is sound “air tight”.

Are The Premises True?

Premise two(minor premise) needs no defending, for it is a fact that Jehovah’s witnesses’ believe that Jesus is an angel. Thus my work lies on my Major premise:

1. If Jesus is an angel, then Jesus is no better than the Devil.

What Did The Devil Do?

What we know about the Devil, is that he is a fallen cherubim((Ezekiel 28:12-15), who was then thrown out of Heaven because, he wanted to make himself like the Most High. The Devil wanted to set his throne on high.  Thus resulted in him being expelled from heaven, him and his angels(Demons). The Book Of Isaiah put it this way:

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
(Isaiah 14:12-15 ESV)

In other words, the Devil as an angel equated himself with Yahweh, Jehovah. The King of all. Now, Jesus does exactly the same in the Gospels.

I will use the Gospel of John to show Jesus’ own claims which not only I think he is equating himself with Yahweh but the Pharisee and the teacher of Law of Jesus times thought the same. John put it this way:

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (John 5:18 ESV)

Jesus Self-Exalting Claims:

1. What Fathers Does Jesus Does:

i. Work On Sabbath: The Lord of Sabbath

Jews Mosaic laws taught not to work on Sabbath, the day of the Yahweh

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work…(10 Commandments Exodus 20:1-17)

And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” (John 5:16-17 ESV)

The Jews were shocked not only is Jesus working on Sabbath, but he is claiming to be equal with the Lord of Sabbath. Jesus is saying, The Father never stop working till now and so am I. No wonder they want to persecute him.

ii. Gives Life: Only Yahweh gives life:

For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. (John 5:21 ESV)

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40 ESV)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28 ESV)

Only Yahweh can make this claims and keep them. Moreover, it is God the Fathers will that we look at and believe in Jesus, for our eternal life.

iii. Judge The World: Remember Yahweh  is Judge.

The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. (John 5:22-23 ESV)

The Old Testament teaches that Yahweh is our only Judge and that he will judge the righteous and the wicked.(Job 31:13-15, Psalms 9:7, 50:3-6, 96:13, Ecclesiastes 3:17, 11:9) Thus Jesus claim to be that Yahweh , the Judge.

iv. Only Yahweh is the Shepherd

I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.(John 10:11 ESV)

Only Yahweh is the shepherd of Israel and the world. Read Psalm 23, Isaiah 40, Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 34. In this way Jesus equates himself to the Lord Shepherd of David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28 ESV)

v. Freedom in the Son

So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (John 8:36 ESV)

If Jesus sets you free, you are so free. Only Yahweh can set someone this free(Isaiah 43:25).

2. Honor Jesus As Honoring God the Father himself.

Jesus claims we are to honor him just as much as we honor the Father.

The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. (John 5:22-23 ESV)

This is simply blasphemous claim if  it comes from ether an archangel or super human.

3. Love Due To God Alone

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15 ESV)

I will drop Matthew 10:37 to make you see what kind of love, Jesus talking about here:

Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:37 ESV)

In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf; for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
(John 16:26-27 ESV)

In short, Jesus is asking for the love which is only due to God. Love more than anything else. Amazing enough the Father approves us in loving Jesus with a love due to God alone.

4. The Father And I are One; The Fatal Claim

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (John 10:29-33 ESV)

He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
(John 16:14-15 ESV)

I added more context here so I can join in with the Jews and say how dare “You being an angel makes yourself God even saying that the Spirit of God will glorify you” I do not want to read this into the Bible. But I here wish to stretch out the claim that even if Jesus was an angel like the way Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, saying the Father and Archangel Michael are one is blasphemy namely no better than what the fallen angel, Devil did.

NB: This was one of the fatal claim by Jesus which resulted in Jews religious leader Crucifying him

5. In Jesus Authority

In “some’s name” is a phrase used in ancient times to mean “in the authority of “. In Jesus name, then means in Jesus’ authority.  With this in mind:

If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. (John 14:14 ESV)

Some manuscripts omits “me” . Even though “me” is omitted it does not change the fact that we ought to ask in Jesus authority and Jesus himself will do it.

In short we are called to pray not only in Jesus authority but to Jesus. This is exactly what the first Christian to be martyr(stoned to death), namely Stephen did:

And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep. (Acts 7:59-60 ESV)

Stephen is doing exactly what Jesus did on the cross as he cried out to his Father to receive his spirit(Luke 23:46).

6. Jesus, The Alpha and Omega:

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:58-59 ESV)

To make you grasp the weight of this claim, I will throw in Revelations of John 1:17

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. (Revelation 1:17-18 ESV)

If Jesus is an angel or a mere man, and says things only Yahweh can said then I am so right to pick the stone up and stone him, a pure devil on our mist, a blasphemous beast!

I can go on and on but for the sake of space I am force to stop. To sum up If Jesus is an angel and he is claiming these among many things then he is no better than Devil himself.
Back to the argument: Now What? Who Is Jesus Now?

  1. If Jesus is an angel,then Jesus is no better than the Devil.
  2. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is an angel.
  3. Therefore according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is no better than the Devil.
  4. It is not true that Jesus is no better than the Devil(See John 6:27)
  5. Therefore it is not true that Jesus is an angel

Summing up, any angel claiming to be loved the way we love the Father(God), honor him the way we honor the Father, pray to him, claiming to be Alpha and Omega, and more over the great “I AM ” then that angel is no better than the Devil. Therefore I can conclude that Jehovah’s Witnesses understanding and claims of who Jesus is logically wrong(and absurd).

Who then is Jesus? Like doubting Thomas, I will answer, he is ” my Lord, my God”(John 20:28)

Refuting Watchtower.org  Article’s Arguments:

1 Thessalonians 4:16

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16 ESV)

If Jesus is an archangel because of “with the voice of an archangel” then Jesus is “the sound of the trumpet of God” too which is absurd;namely “ with the sound of the trumpet of God”.

Rhetoric Questions:

If I speak with the tongue of Angels(1 Corinthian 13), does that makes me an angel?  Of cause not. If I make the voice of a horse, does this makes me a horse? Of cause not! With the voice of an archangel is a phrase used to show the awaking of the dead, at the end time.

It is therefore not logical to conclude that Jesus is an archangel from this Scripture.

Appeal to Ignorance:

“So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus”(watchtower.org)

This is a logical fallacy(a mistake in reasoning) also known as  Argument from Ignorance(Argumentum ad Ignorantiam)

  1. There is no evidence against p.
  2. Therefore, p.

Or

  1. There is no evidence for p.
  2. Therefore, not-p.

If a lawyer succeeds in defending Mr.P by showing that there no evidence(s) that Mr.P  murdered Mr.Q.  This does not conclude that Mr.P did not murder Mr.Q. In the same way watchtower.org article commits this logical fallacy. Thus it is not logical to conclude that Jesus is angel Michael.

Jude 9

But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”
(Jude 1:9 ESV)

More shocking is that Jude 9 is counter-argument against Jehovah Witnesses teaching.  Jude 9 makes archangel Michael most likely not to be Jesus.  If Michael is the archangel, the one to whom Jehovah’s witnesses teaches that created every other creatures, then why could not Michael rebuke his own creation? Through out the Gospel Jesus is rebuking the Devil and the Devil obeys.

Thus Watchtower.org reasoning of Jesus as Archangel Micheal is more out of their own presupposed theology, which is they have yet to support with the Scriptures.

Personal Study: Go Farther

Bible Book of John in this Article

4:30-42; Chapter 5 and 6; 7:17-37; 8:12-58; 9:30-35; 10:11-38, 11:25-f 12:44-50; 14:1-31; 15:1-26; 16:1-33; 17:1-24; 20

Good Book To Read:

Putting Jesus  In His Place;The Case For The Deity of Christ by Robert M. Bowman Jr. J. Ed Komoszewski

Advertisements

15 thoughts on “Dangerous Logic Behind Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Jesus

  1. Pingback: Dangerous Logic Behind Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Jesus (via With All I Am) « With All I Am

  2. Hi Prayson,

    After reading thru your post several more times, I now better understand what you mean in the premise, “If Jesus is an angel,then Jesus is no better than the Devil.” You are saying that ‘if Jesus isn’t God, he committed the same sin as Satan’.

    The way I was reading it (and the way an earlier commenter was apparently reading it) was that you were saying Jesus’ having an angelic nature-in and of itself-makes him (morally?) no better than another angel, namely Satan. This reading colored my entire analysis of your argument, so I apologize for the misunderstanding.

    Now that we’re on the same plane, I have to view that premise as false from the outset, for many of the reasons listed in my last response. Both Jesus and Satan are creatures in my view, yet the critical difference is that Satan independently took something that belongs to God alone, whereas Jesus was always given what he has by God. Simply stated, Jesus was always God’s faithful representative, Satan was not. This makes all the difference.

    The glory, honor and titles Jesus received all have precedent in other servants of God, and none of them are exclusive of God alone. Rather, Jesus himself referred to his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3)

    • Dear TJ,

      Thank you again for wonderful comments and objections. It is true that The Father is the Only True God. We agree One hundred percent.

      From the Old and New Testament, we have this:

      1. God is One,
      2. In God there is “US” Genesis 1 and 2
      3. Father is God
      4. Jesus is God
      5. Holy Spirit is God

      Is Jesus God? Yes and this is what I have being defending all along and defended it one the first comment/objections you made.

      If God is One, and that Father is God, Son is God and Spirit is God, then Father, Son and Spirit are God. Not gods.

      With the Defense to Trinity I have posted articles on this blog. Jesus search Trinity and you would have them in my blog.

      In Christ Jesus,
      Prayson

  3. Prayson, logic require clearly defined terms. Your initial premise is far too hazy to withstand the strain you put on it. When you say, “If Jesus is an angel, then he is no better than the fallen angel, the Devil”, what does that mean? That he is morally no better? In that case I certainly disagree. If, however, you mean “no better” in that both are creatures created lower than God, then I heartily agree. But this is left totally ambiguous, and this is the faulty foundation on which you build your entire argument.

    More problems: Jesus’ enemies conclusions are recorded at John 5:18 and are wrong. Jesus did not break the Sabbath (which would make him a sinner), nor did he claim to be equal to God.

    At 1. ii. you make the unsupported premise, “Only Yahweh gives life.” This ignores that Yahweh can give life by means of a representative of his. For example, Scripture records that God is the only Savior, yet it also says that he raised up “saviors”, such as the Judges Ehud and Othniel to deliver his people at certain points in Israel’s history. This oversight undermines your further arguments in section 1.

    Section 2 is based on the same fundamental flaw. Jesus has just said in verse 19 that he cannot do anything of himself, but only what the Father does. He is the Father’s representative! It is in this position that he receives honor. If God appoints a ruler over you, and you ignore that ruler, don’t you ignore the one who appointed him? It was the same for the appointed kings of ancient Israel, they even received “worship” along with God, as the recognized representative of him. (See 1 Chronicles 29:20)

    In section 4, you quote John 10:29-33. What you have left out is Jesus’ immediate defense against his enemies’ (again) wrong accusations. He appeals to the Psalms, wherein human representatives of Jehovah are called ‘gods’ by God himself (the term is being used in a limited sense), and Jesus takes this example as a pattern to himself. He commits no blasphemy because he too is God’s appointed representative. Yet if you simply accept these ones’ blasphemy accusation as carrying weight here, do you also accept the claim that Jesus had a demon and was insane, as they claimed in verse 20?

    In section 5, you appeal to Stephen’s stoning, where he calls out to Jesus. Yet, what is evident in that passage? Stephen is actually seeing Jesus beside God in a vision at the time! (Verse 56) It wasn’t a prayer in the usual sense by any means, he was directly speaking to one whom he could see. Was the unbelieving Saul, on the road to Damascus, ‘praying’ to Jesus when he spoke to him in the vision?

    These are a mere sampling of flaws throughout your proofs. Back to your main line of argumentation. The hazy, undefined “no better” status of Jesus now seems to be tipped in the direction of a moral sense or some kind of degree of ability when you add “It is not true that Jesus is no better than the Devil(proof John 6:27).” John 6:27 speaks of Jesus’ ability to impart everlasting life, which you are presumably contrasting with the Devil’s inability to do. But this is where the bad foundation causes your entire house of logic to fall.

    As I said at the outset, if by “no better” you are speaking to both Jesus and Satan as being creatures, Jehovah’s Witnesses subscribe to that. You would then need to point to a verse that proves conclusively that Jesus cannot be a creature, not one that shows his moral excellence or abilities. To say that because they are both angels they must be “no better” than each other in terms of power or in faithfulness is simply wrong, and makes your argument unsound.

    Finally, your last point on Jude 9 is anachronistic. No where does it say Michael “could not” rebuke the Devil, but that he did not presume to do it. This is before God committed all judgment into Jesus’ hands. Thus, your point is akin to claiming that a young George Washington, who was under the command of the British army in the French and Indian War, could not have later been President of the United States, since the American Commander-in-Chief doesn’t take orders from the British army. It ignores times and circumstances.

    • Dear TJ,

      Here is the first part as we go back to the Scripture and dig more and try to answer your obejctions.

      Objection:

      “Prayson, logic require clearly defined terms. Your initial premise is far too hazy to withstand the strain you put on it. When you say, “If Jesus is an angel, then he is no better than the fallen angel, the Devil”, what does that mean?”

      Response:

      The haziness in the initial premise is intention so as to bring about the Absurdity of Angelic-Jesus. Now, the context lead you to find out in what way does the author(ME) meant by “no better”. And it is clear in the context as I bring about the fall of Satan due to his self-exaltation, namely equating himself with Yahweh. (Isaiah 14:12-15)

        Satan as an angel exalted himself as high as Yahweh
        Jesus as an angel exalted himself as high as Yahweh(Assumption: Jesus is an angel)

      In this way Jesus as an angel is no better, or is doing exactly what the fallen angel did. Remember this is only true If and only If Jesus is an angel to which my argument is to argue against, namely Jesus is NOT an angel.

      Objection:

      “More problems: Jesus’ enemies conclusions are recorded at John 5:18 and are wrong. Jesus did not break the Sabbath (which would make him a sinner), nor did he claim to be equal to God.”

      Response:

      I will bring you to the Context of John 5:18 so that you can see how these Teachers of Laws reach these conclusion and I think I support them If Jesus is a mere man or an angel.

      Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.” And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.
      Now that day was the Sabbath. So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.” But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’” They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place. Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.” The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.
      But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”
      This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
      (John 5:8-18 ESV)

      Let me build it up in this way:

      Jesus says his Father is to present working even in on Sabbath, his Father has not stop working in such and so will he. Only God is above Sabbath the law, Jesus is from the context above the Sabbath law. If Jesus is not God then indeed Jesus has broken the command, working on Sabbath. If Jesus is not God, then yes he is blaspheming just like the Satan in Isaiah 14:12-15 by equating himself with the Father when it comes to working on Sabbath and calling God his own Father.

      Objection:

      “At 1. ii. you make the unsupported premise, “Only Yahweh gives life.” This ignores that Yahweh can give life by means of a representative of his.”

      Response:

      Thank you for this objections for it will give us a chance to open more the Scriptures to see that Only Yahweh gives life. Indeed Yahweh has used Prophets in doing so but I would like you to see the difference between the Prophets and Jesus.

      And he said to her, “Give me your son.” And he took him from her arms and carried him up into the upper chamber where he lodged, and laid him on his own bed. And he cried to Yahweh, “O Yahweh my God, have you brought calamity even upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by killing her son?” Then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to Yahweh, “O Yahweh my God, let this child’s life come into him again.” And Yahweh listened to the voice of Elijah. And the life of the child came into him again, and he revived. And Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper chamber into the house and delivered him to his mother. And Elijah said, “See, your son lives.” And the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God, and that the word of Yahweh in your mouth is truth.” (1 Kings 17:19-24 ESV cf Elisha 2 Kings 4:28)

      Elijah did not give life to the Child, but Yahweh did. Elijah asks and Yahweh does. Now let us look at Gospel of John and what it says of Jesus and Life

      • John 1:4 
In him was life,and the life was the light of men.
      • John 3:15 
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
      • John 3:16 

“For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
      • John 3:36 
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
      • John 4:14 
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again.The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
      • John 4:36 
Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together.
      • John 5:21 
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
      • John 5:24 
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
      • John 5:26 
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
      • John 5:39 
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
      • John 5:40 
yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
      • John 6:27 
Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”
      • John 6:33 
For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
      • John 6:35 
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
      • John 6:40 
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
      • John 6:47 
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
      • John 6:48 
I am the bread of life.
      • John 6:51 
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
      • John 6:53 
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
      • John 6:54 
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
      • John 6:63 
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
      • John 6:68 
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life,
      • John 8:12 
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
      • John 10:10 
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
      • John 10:11 
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
      • John 10:15 
just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
      • John 10:17 
For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
      • John 10:28 
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
      • John 11:25 
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
      • John 12:25 
Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
      • John 12:50 
And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”
      • John 13:37 
Peter said to him, “Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.”
      • John 13:38 
Jesus answered, “Will you lay down your life for me? Truly, truly, I say to you, the rooster will not crow till you have denied me three times.
      • John 14:6 
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
      • John 15:13 
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
      • John 17:2 
since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
      • John 17:3 
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
      • John 20:31 
but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

      Summary:
      Jesus is Life, Jesus gives life, Jesus is the resurrection and the life,Jesus gives eternal life, Jesus is the bread of Life. No Jesus no life. Father gives life, Jesus gives life.

      Conclusion:
      Do you think Elijah or Elisha could say words like this: “For as Yahweh raises the dead and gives them life, so also Elijah or Elisha will gives life to whom he will

      John 17:2-3 show that the Father authority handling to the Son Jesus to give eternal life to whom ever the Son choose is more than that the Prophets. Thus Elisha and Elijah praying to Yahweh, means they prayed to Jesus. Since they acts was done before the creation of the World.

      Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24 ESV)

      Objection:

      For example, Scripture records that God is the only Savior, yet it also says that he raised up “saviors”, such as the Judges Ehud and Othniel to deliver his people at certain points in Israel’s history. This oversight undermines your further arguments in section 1.

      Response:

      Your objection fails to see the differences between savior of natural or physical things to Supernatural one. Savior in what sense, you need to ask yourself? Savior of humanity? Savior of the power of Death, Savior from the corruption nature namely Sin.Savior from the greatest slavery of the power of Sin.

      Ehud and Othniel are not saviors of sin, or humanity. Only God is our Savior, Jesus is our Savior.

      Scriptures to which Lord Yahweh is the Savior and compare with Jesus’

      • Lord Yahweh: Deuteronomy 32:15, Psalm 25:5; 27:9; 62:2,6; 65:5 79:9 95:1 Isaiah 12:2; 17:10 45:15,21 Micah 7:7 Hab. 3:19
      • Lord Jesus: Luke 2:1; John 4:42; Philippians 3:20 2 Timothy 1:10 Titus 2:13 2 Peter 1:11 2:20 3:2,18 1 John 4:14

      Objection:

      “Section 2 is based on the same fundamental flaw. Jesus has just said in verse 19 that he cannot do anything of himself, but only what the Father does. He is the Father’s representative! It is in this position that he receives honor. If God appoints a ruler over you, and you ignore that ruler, don’t you ignore the one who appointed him? It was the same for the appointed kings of ancient Israel, they even received “worship” along with God, as the recognized representative of him. (See 1 Chronicles 29:20)”

      Response:

      Here, I would ask you to put off Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Watchtower glasses for a minute so that you can wear the Holy Spirit glasses that you may see the Scripture direct from the Bible.

      The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. (John 5:22-23 ESV)

      Just as you honor the Father, you are to honor the Son. It is not about representation here dear friend and I will show you will.

      Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.(Philippians 2:9-11 ESV)

      And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped. (Revelation 5:13-14 ESV)

      Jesus and the Father are honored, praised and worshiped together. The Oneness of Jesus and the Father is so one that they form one unity of Worship.

      Let me take closer look doxology at 1 Chronicle 29:11-13 then to Revelation as applied to God and the Lamb

      Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all. Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. And now we thank you, our God, and praise your glorious name. (1 Chronicles 29:11-13 ESV)

      Compare Chronicles doxology to the ones in Revelation

      And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

      “Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
      to receive glory and honor and power,
      for you created all things,
      and by your will they existed and were created.”
      (Revelation 4:9-11 ESV)

      And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying,

      “Worthy are you to take the scroll
      and to open its seals,
      for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
      from every tribe and language and people and nation,
      and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
      and they shall reign on the earth.”

      Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped. (Revelation 5:8-14 ESV)

      Compare also Dominion to God 5:13 to the Lamb 1:6, 5:13, Might/Wisdom/Wealth to God 7:12 and to the Lamb 5:12 (1 Chronicle 29:11)

      Conclusion:

      Jesus is not just Earthy Honored as He represent the Father, but will forever be honored together with the Father. Worshiping of Jesus does not take away the honor due to the Father but adds it for they are the Creator of everything, giver of life, Savior, King of Kings/Lord of Lords(Lord Yahweh: Dan 4:37 1 Tim 6:15 cf Deut 10:17 Psa. 136:2-3 Lord Jesus Rev 17:14 19:16), First and the Last(Lord Yahweh: Isa 41:14 44:6 48:12 Rev 21.6 and Lord Jesus: Rev 1:7-8, 17b-18; 2:8, 22:12-13).

      Worshiping of Jesus From The Founders of Jehovah Witnesses:

      Russell, Rutherford and Knorr not only saw this clear as they also taught that Jesus should be worshiped together with the Father.

      Charles Taze Russell

      “Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. … It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man.” Zion’s Watch Tower 1898 July 15 p.216

      Joseph Franklin Rutherford

      Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah’s purpose (Heb.:3-6).” Watchtower 1939 Nov. 15 p.339

      “The people of all nations who obtain salvation must come to the house of the Lord to worship there; that is to say, they must believe on and worship Jehovah God and the Lord Jesus Christ, his chief instrument (Philippians 2:10, 11).” Salvation p.151

      Nathan Homer Knorr

      “Now, at Christ’s coming to reign as king in Jehovah’s capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah’s Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy.”(Watchtower 1945 October 15 p. 313)

      What this founders and first Fathers of Jehovah’s Witnesses did not see is that Only True God should be worshiped.

        1. If Only God is to be worshiped
        2. Jesus is worshiped
        3. Therefore Jesus is God.

      I agree with Russell, Rutherford and Knorr that Christ Jesus is to be worshipped, thus honoring Him as we would have honored the Father.

      It was because he was who he was that Jesus Christ did what he did.
      R.H. Fuller, The Foundations of New Testament Christology p. 15

      For now, I will stop here, but I have only cover half of your objections. I pray that I will get more time to answer the rest of the objection as soon as I can. John 10:33 and of Jude 9.

      Be Blesses,

      In Christ Jesus,
      Prayson

      • Hi Prayson,

        Thank you for your response. 🙂 I’ve put your words in italics.

        I will bring you to the Context of John 5:18 so that you can see how these Teachers of Laws reach these conclusion and I think I support them If Jesus is a mere man or an angel.

        You are reading the law on the sabbath in the same way that these Jews were, in an overly legalistic manner that missed the point of it. It didn’t literally mean no work whatsoever could be done on the sabbath. It was intended that God’s people would, to the best of their ability, put aside all of their personal labors and chores, anything unnecessary or that could be done on another day, so that they could joyously focus on spiritual manners. It was meant for refreshment and drawing close to God, not tiptoeing around ridiculously strict rules.

        Doing God’s work was what this day was for. Things like picking a small amount of grain to satisfy hunger while doing God’s work was not breaking that Law, nor was it wrong to feed or provide aid to one’s domestic animal on the sabbath. God is reasonable and loving. These are all reasonable and necessary tasks. The teachers you are supporting here were known to even say that one who broke a bone could not have it set on the sabbath day, they had to wait in pain for the next day.

        These were extreme, bureaucratic man-made rules and missed the meaning of the sabbath day. Jesus’ healing the paralyzed man and sending him home with his cot was not some labor for personal profit on anyone’s part, it was all a part of an act that glorified God. It was more than appropriate that such work as that took place on the sabbath.

        Only God is above Sabbath the law, Jesus is from the context above the Sabbath law. If Jesus is not God then indeed Jesus has broken the command, working on Sabbath.

        Well then we certainly have a problem. Jesus is not above that law. Galatians 4:4 specifically states that Jesus was “born under law.” That fact alone voids this argument.

        John 17:2-3 show that the Father authority handling to the Son Jesus to give eternal life to whom ever the Son choose is more than that the Prophets.

        Jesus there says to his Father, “you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.” It always originates with God! Jesus is given the authority and given the ones to impart with everlasting life

        God used Elijah, Elisha, even Paul and others through whom he resurrected certain ones. He uses Jesus to resurrect all of his faithful ones. But the source of life is still the Father, not Jesus. He received that authority.

        Father gives life, Jesus gives life.

        Yes, but one is the source, and one is the agent through whom he acts.

        Savior in what sense, you need to ask yourself?

        Exactly! Are you asking that same question when it comes to Jesus?

        Just as God was a savior to Israel from their enemies at certain times by sending servants of his to actually save them, he did the same exact act to save all of faithful humankind from the enemies sin and death.

        “God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” (John 3:17)

        God saved Israel through Ehud.
        God saved Israel through Othniel.
        God saved the world through Jesus.

        The enemy makes no difference. God is the source of the salvation in each case, whereas the ‘saviors’ Ehud, Othniel, and Jesus are the ones through whom he saved.

        Just as you honor the Father, you are to honor the Son. It is not about representation here dear friend

        Allow me to demonstrate a simple point. Please read Matthew 8:5-13 and answer this one question: Who was it that approached Jesus in the passage?

        The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. (John 5:22-23 ESV)
        Jesus and the Father are honored, praised and worshiped together.

        Why does Jesus receive such honor, isn’t it because he was “given all judgment” by his Father? Notice the pattern? All of Jesus glory and honor results from what God gave him. Satan reached out for glory and honor that God did not give him. Night and Day.

        And again, God and the Israelite king are ‘worshipped’ together at 1 Chronicles 29:20. How is that situation fundamentally different from what is said about God and King Jesus?

        As regards your quotes of Watchtower publications (not necessarily authored by the persons you cite), I freely admit that we have in the past used the word “worship” towards Jesus. It even appears in earlier versions of the NWT. But we never have viewed such worship as being on the same level with worship directed towards Jehovah God. Words’ meanings change over time, and while the English word “worship” once was used with a broad definition, encompassing both absolute and relative forms of worship, in recent decades its popular usage has been reduced to primarily being used towards God exclusively.

        But the underlying Greek word, proskyneo, retains the broader meaning. In scripture, it is used towards God, Jesus, angels and men. For example, Jesus will make those of ‘the synagogue of Satan’ “worship” (proskyneo) the Christians in Philadelphia. (Rev. 3:9) Abraham “worshipped” (proskyneo) the sons of Heth. (Gen. 23:7; LXX)

        1. If Only God is to be worshiped
        2. Jesus is worshiped
        3. Therefore Jesus is God.

        Your first premise is false if you use “worship” in the same way its underlying Greek word is used in scripture. For example, what is said at Revelation 3:9 would mean:

        1. If Only God is to be worshiped
        2. Philadelphia Christians are to be worshiped
        3. Therefore Philadelphia Christians are God.

        No good. And yes, there are many more examples like this. Did you know David worshipped Saul? Of course, virtually every translation out there chooses to understand such ‘worship’ in a more limited, relative sense than David’s worship toward God.

    • Dear TJ,

      Its unfortunate that you chose not to go through the Scriptures I lay down for you. How do I know this? It is that you repeatedly fall into the same mistake namely misunderstanding the arguments. We would, I hope, have avoided redundancy if you would have read the Scripture I gave you. It took me long to reply because I do take seriously your objection by researching and doing my homework before answering back. I pray that you would do the same since this is not just a mere debate with winning and losing, I care not about winning or losing, what I care is that you get to see God’s Scriptures and see Jesus as He is.

      I will point to where I think you are misinformed, misquote and commit logical fallacies in your last reply. I hope you would take this in love, for if I fail there, then all I have done is meanless and nothing. For I seek not the glory of men, but in all I do I wish to bring glory to God, hollowing his name.

      Red Herring On John 5:8-18

      Sabbath as being a day for doing God’s work is irrelevant issue you rose to which diverted our attention from the main subject. What is the main Subject? John 5:17 has the answer:

      But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” (John 5:17 ESV)

      Jesus is telling them that the Father did not really rest of the Seventh Day “Sabbath”

      And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.(Genesis 2:2-3)

      But it is clear that the first book of Moses said he did. But Jesus has more, God even after making everything, He has to maintain, preserve, provide, support and keep everything continuously in a state, condition or course of His will. He has to sustain them in this way He is “working until now”. Read Job 38-39(cf Genesis 27:37, Nehemiah 9:21 Psalm 3:5, Psalm 41:3, 1 Corinthians 1:8)

      Jesus on John 5:17, justifying himself on working on Sabbath, in saying If the Father has not stop working until now, so will I. It is in this way that the Teachers of Law concludes “making himself equal with God.”

      Misinformed of Galatians 4

      I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. (Galatians 4:1-7 ESV)

      The firstborn “Heir”, Jesus, the Word that was in the beginning and was with God(John 1:1) had to became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14). He had to became flesh, be tempted, feel pain, get angry, hungry, tired and on among us who are under the law, why? So that he could redeem us who are under the law. If Jesus is under the law, then how could he redeem us? You need to be above the law, to redeem us from the law. I will leave you with these Scriptures for you to mediated on.

      Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.

      Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.(Galatians 3:19-22)

      Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:19-20 ESV)

      Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:18-21 ESV)

      Rhetoric With John 17:2-3

      I will use rhetoric to help you see your reasoning: You keep holding on the following reasoning:

      God saved Israel through Ehud.
      God saved Israel through Othniel.
      God saved the world through Jesus.

      The enemy makes no difference. God is the source of the salvation in each case, whereas the ‘saviors’ Ehud, Othniel, and Jesus are the ones through whom he saved.

      Saved from The One of the Throne;God the Father(James 4:4) and Human(Israel enemies) are of no difference? Jesus redeemed us for the wrath of God.

      Please try to add Ehud or Othniel on the place of God’s Servant in Isaiah 53, If you still think the enemy makes no difference then I honestly do not know what I could write to change your position. If God sending Christ Jesus to go through the passion and death on cross to bring us peace with him(Isaiah 53) makes no difference with Ehud and Othniel saving Israel from Human enemies in your understanding.

      After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” (Revelation 7:9-10 ESV)

      Can you dare to insert Ehud and Othniel in the place of the Lamb?

      “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
      Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” (Revelation 22:12-16 ESV)

      Jesus is the Only Savior that saves not only the present sin but the past, the present and the future. From Adam to us to the Last because He is just like the Father , Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. All the sacrifices given in the past foresaw the coming of the only Savior Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God. This is why Jesus said “Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

      Thank For Bring Matthew 8:5-13, Answer to Jesus and Other Prophet Healings

      When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him, “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.” And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.” But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment. (Matthew 8:5-13 ESV)

      1. Jesus will come and heal a paralyzed servant.
      2. Only Jesus word is enough to heal a paralyzed servant.
      3. Jesus is all-knowing because he know that no one in Israel have such a faith.
      4. Jesus knows the future, that some Jews(Israelite God’s Kingdom) will end up in in Hell while non-Jew namely Gentiles from west and east , like a centurion, the commander of a century in the ancient Roman army, will join Abraham, Isaac ad Jacob in Heaven.
      5. Jesus word heal a servant who is not there.

        Rhetoric Question comes then:

        Who healed the sick servant? To make you even see how different Jesus is with Elisha and Elijah, these prophets had to ask God for healing. Jesus is healing. Jesus did not say, “I will come and my Father will heal you” No, Jesus said, “he, Jesus himself will heal.”

        Jesus, aware of this, withdrew from there. And many followed him, and he healed them all (Matthew 12:15)

        While he was coming, the demon threw him to the ground and convulsed him. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit and healed the boy, and gave him back to his father.(Luke 9:42

        The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him.(John 5:15)

        To make you see this clear, The Book of Acts of Apostles help us understand how Jesus disciples understood him. This is what Peter Says:

        And Peter said to him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed.” And immediately he rose. Acts 9:34

        Can you image Elisha, Elijah’s disciple in 2 Kings 4:28-37 say ” Son, Elisha healed you, rise and make your bed”?

        Why does Jesus receive such honor, isn’t it because he was “given all judgment” by his Father?

        In deed you are right, but what you failed to see is that this Father-Son giving of glory and honor is from eternity.

        When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (John 17:1-5 ESV)

        Father receives glory by glorifying the Son. See the deference between glory, one after finishing the work on Earth, Jesus being the Savior, absorbing God’s Wrath, two; Jesus glory before the creation of the universe. Jesus asks to be glorified together with the Father with the glory He possessed “with” (para) the Father from eternity.

        Other Bible John 17:5 Translations:

        Jesus prayed to the Father to “glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (NKJV, cf. NASB, NEB ASV, KJV)

        Slippery slope and Oversimplification Fallacies

        1. If Only God is to be worshiped
        2. Philadelphia Christians are to be worshiped
        3. Therefore Philadelphia Christians are God.

        I will define this fallacies because not many are aware of them:

        Slippery slope fallacy is arguing that if an opponent were to accept some claim C1, then he or she has to accept some other closely related claim C2, which in turn commits the opponent to a still further claim C3, eventually leading to the conclusion that the opponent is committed to something absurd or obviously unacceptable. This style of argumentation constitutes a fallacy only when it is inappropriate to think if one were to accept the initial claim, one must accept all the other claims.

        Oversimplification fallacy is committed when multiple causes are reduced to just one or a few. Example Worship is reduced to just bowing down, or felling on the ground.

        Back to Worship in Revelation:

        And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (Revelation 19:9-10 ESV)

        And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”
        “And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” (Revelation 22:6-9 ESV)

        And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
        “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”(Matthew 4:9-10 ESV)

        True same created things are worshiped, but only the creator of the universe deserve the ultimate worship. When I used Only God is to be worship, it means only God deserve ultimate adoration, serving, prayers, thanks giving, and praise. This is exacting the kind of worship Jesus is getting in Revelation 5 to which the founders of Jehovah’s Witness taught and agree on.

        And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying,

        Worthy are you to take the scroll
        and to open its seals,
        for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
        from every tribe and language and people and nation,
        and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
        and they shall reign on the earth.”

        Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped. (Revelation 5:8-14 ESV)

        Worship is not only bowing or felling down, it is about power, blessings, honor, glory,worthiness, Dominion(to God 5:13 to the Lamb 1:6, 5:13) Might/Wisdom/Wealth(to God 7:12 and to the Lamb 5:12 (1 Chronicle 29:11)). You oversimplified worship thus missed the point that Jesus receives worship much more than felling down to the ground.

        For this reason, in 1945 Nathan Homer Knorr, as a president of Watchtower amended new Charter which promotes the worshiping of Jehovah and Jesus.

        Watchtower Legal Charter and Worshiping of Jesus:

        “The purposes of this Society are: To act as the servant of and the legal world-wide governing agency for that body of Christian persons known as Jehovah’s Witnesses to preach the gospel of God’s kingdom under Christ Jesus unto all nations as a witness to the name, word and supremacy of Almighty Good JEHOVAH; to print and distribute Bibles and to disseminate Bible truths in various languages by means of making and publishing literature containing information and comment explaining Bible truths and prophecy concerning establishment of Jehovah’s kingdom under Christ Jesus to authorize and appoint agents, servants, employees, teachers, instructors, evangelists, missionaries and ministers to go forth to all the world publicly and from house to house to preach and teach Bible truths to persons willing to listen by leaving with such persons said literature and by conducting Bible studies thereon to improve men, women and children mentally and morally by Christian missionary work and by charitable and benevolent instruction of the people on the Bible and incidental scientific, historical and literary subjects to establish and maintain private Bible schools and classes for gratuitous instruction of men and women in the Bible, Bible literature and Bible history; to teach, train, prepare and equip men and women as ministers, missionaries, evangelists, preachers, teachers and lecturers to provide and maintain homes, places and buildings for gratuitous housing of such students, lecturers, teachers and minister; to furnish gratuitously to such students, lecturers, teachers, educators and ministers suitable meals and lodging and to prepare, support, maintain and send out to various parts of the world Christian missionaries, teachers and instructors in the Bible and Bible literature and for public Christian worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus; to arrange for and hold local and world-wide assemblies for such worship to use or operate radio broadcasting stations for preaching this gospel of the kingdom; and to do any and all other lawful things that its Board of Directors shall deem expedient for the purposes stated.”(1945 Yearbook p.32)

        Even though the modern Jehovah’s Witnesses hide(The Yearbook of 1969 p.50) or misquote(Watchtower 1971 December 15 p.760) this truth, Jesus, the Might God and Almighty God, God the Father are worshiped together in a way that is NOT the same as David, Saul, angels, Peter,or Philadelphia Christians.

        I pray that you reread my last response and go through it again, and then do write me.

        Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:24-25 ESV)

        In Christ Jesus,

        Prayson

        • Hello Prayson,

          Its unfortunate that you chose not to go through the Scriptures I lay down for you. How do I know this? It is that you repeatedly fall into the same mistake namely misunderstanding the arguments.

          I understand that you’re frustrated with my response, but please give me the benefit of the doubt about reading your arguments. I have indeed read them, I just don’t find them convincing. I’m not here to ‘win’ a debate either, but simply to point out what I feel are legitimate weaknesses in your arguments.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Sabbath as being a day for doing God’s work is irrelevant issue you rose to which diverted our attention from the main subject. What is the main Subject? John 5:17 has the answer:

          No, it’s really not an irrelevant issue. In fact, your response on this subject actually supports my point.

          God indeed did rest, yet he also continued working. He rested from a particular kind of work (i.e. his creative work) and continued another kind of work (many of which you list). Jews in general, not just Jesus, were expected to do the exact same thing on the Sabbath day, rest from one kind of work, yet give special attention to another.

          This is where my argument, which you have called an irrelevant red herring, falls into place. Jesus obeyed the proper application of the Mosaic Law, but not the man-made traditions that overstepped it. When they accused him of breaking the Sabbath, Jesus’ enemies were judging him by those man-made traditions, not the actual Mosaic Law.

          Jesus was not performing some kind of work for personal profit on the Sabbath (which the Law condemns) he was performing a work which brought glory to God. This type of work was what the Sabbath was meant for! Resting from one kind of work, but continuing another.

          Jesus was under Law, not above it. He did nothing here that required one to be above the Law because he was actually fulfilling its original intent–bringing glory to God!

          And not to be overlooked is that his enemies were not claiming that he was making himself equal to God because he was breaking (their twisted version of) the Sabbath; they said that because “he was also calling God his own Father”. Jesus then quoted Psalms in his defense against this bogus conclusion. He was no more ‘equal’ with God than those other ones scripture itself calls gods.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          If Jesus is under the law, then how could he redeem us?

          The mechanism for that atonement was written right into the Law itself. The atoning sacrifice from the herd had to be “a male without blemish.” (Lev. 1:3) The scriptures you quote help explain all of this. The Law, among other things, made sins apparent to those living under the Law; they were all blemished by sin. By being given a divine standard to measure up to, they got to see their need for a unblemished redeemer. None of Adam’s descendants could of themselves ‘earn’ the right to live forever by keeping every statute of the Law.

          This is what makes Jesus different. Adam’s original sin is passed on to all his offspring, except Jesus. This is why Jesus had no biological human father. He was born into the human family without inheriting the blemish of Adamic sin. He had to be born under Law so that he could keep that Law perfectly, thereby proving that he had earned the right to everlasting human life. And then he could freely give up that right of his in behalf of all those exercising real faith in him.

          Jesus was certainly under Law. But he was the only one to perfectly uphold that Law his entire life. That is what enabled him to make the redeeming sacrifice as the unblemished ‘lamb’.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          So being saved from The One on the Throne;God the Father(James 4:4) and Human(Israel enemies) are of no difference?

          You have misstated my argument. God is not the enemy to his people, who are the ones under discussion here. Sin and death are the oppressive enemies, just as the Mesopotamians were in Othniel’s time and the Moabites were in Ehud’s time. Each of these enemies requires a savior for God’s people, one that God himself raises up to deliver them. Othniel and Ehud clearly foreshadowed Jesus as representatives carrying out God’s plan of salvation.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Please try to add Ehud or Othniel on the place of God’s Servant in Isaiah 53, If you still think the enemy makes no difference then I honestly do not know what I could write to change your position. Is God sending Christ Jesus to go through the passion and death on cross to bring us peace with him(Isaiah 53) makes no difference with Ehud and Othniel saving Israel from Human enemies in your understanding?

          Recognize the mechanism God uses for salvation. It is parallel. Ehud and Othniel, like many other types that prefigured Jesus Christ, occupied some role in God’s dealings that Jesus would later occupy in a larger way. They delivered God’s people from an oppressive enemy and condition, Jesus does this in a far grander manner.

          Isaiah 53 again shows Jesus’ role as that unblemished lamb. As one who perfectly upheld God’s Law, his sacrifice was able to cover over any sins that resulted from Adam’s original act of rebellion. In other words, the sacrifice of a perfect man (Jesus) negates the sin of a perfect man (Adam).

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

          Yes. And in the episode of the Moabite oppression, the same could have been said about God and Ehud. Take a step back from the emotional appeals and see the parallels. That’s all I’m saying.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.’…’I, Jesus…'” (Revelation 22:12-16 ESV)

          This isn’t sound reasoning; you’re leaving out the possibility for a shift in speakers, which is very common in chapter 22. I could really provide the same ‘proof’ with John:

          “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega</b,' says the Lord God, 'who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.’ I, John…” (Revelation 1:8-9 ESV)

          See the problem?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Jesus is the Only Savior that saves not only the present sin but the past, the present and the future. From Adam to us to the Last because He is just like the Father , Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.

          He is able to be our savior because he hasn’t been blemished by sin, which requires a death sentence in God’s view. Not by being God, but by being completely obedient to God, he had the right to everlasting human life, a right that he gave to us instead. This is how God delivers his people by means of another.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Thank For Bring Matthew 8:5-13…

          I appreciate that you considered your views on the passage, but you didn’t seem to answer my simple question. I will address this point first. I asked you last time, “Please read Matthew 8:5-13 and answer this one question: Who was it that approached Jesus in the passage?”

          Since you quoted the entire passage, I think it’s fairly evident that it was the centurion himself that is recorded as speaking personally with Jesus. Here is where this could be misleading if one doesn’t recognize the representative paradigm.

          Luke records the account the following way:

          After he had finished all his sayings in the hearing of the people, he entered Capernaum. 2 Now a centurion had a servant who was sick and at the point of death, who was highly valued by him. 3 When the centurion heard about Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his servant. 4 And when they came to Jesus, they pleaded with him earnestly, saying, “He is worthy to have you do this for him, 5 for he loves our nation, and he is the one who built us our synagogue.” 6 And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends, saying to him, “Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. 7 Therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. 8 For I too am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.” 10 And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the servant well.” (Luke 7:1-10 ESV)

          Does this not put an entirely different perspective on what actually took place? Yet both accounts are true, because one’s representative is considered the very same as that person himself. The Bible is full of example after example of this.

          So when you point to the fact that Jesus is to be honored just like the Father is, this is really no different than Matthew describing the centurion’s representatives (the elders of the Jews and later his friends) as the centurion himself. They are treated as one and the same because his representatives are acting in his behalf. Jesus acts in God’s behalf, and so he is to be honored along with God.

          Another example, where Manoah was visited by an angel:

          Manoah knew that he was the angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said to his wife, ‘We shall surely die, for we have seen God.’ (Judges 13:21-22 ESV)

          If Manoah “knew” it was an angel, why did he say “we have seen God”? He treated God’s representative as God himself, although there is clearly a difference between the two. Perhaps you don’t realize it, but a great deal of your argumentation for Jesus operates blinded to this simple explanation.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          To make you even see how different Jesus is with Elisha and Elijah, these prophets had to ask God for healing. Jesus is healing. Jesus did not say, “I will come and my Father will heal you” No, Jesus said, “he, Jesus myself will heal.”

          This is akin to arguing that the woman who touched the fringe of Jesus’ garment in the crowd literally healed herself. After all, Jesus did say, “Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well,” not ‘I have made you well.’ (Matthew 9:22)

          The fact is, Jesus often attributed his powers, not to himself, but to his Father. He even went out of his way to emphasize this fact when, in front of a large crowd, he resurrected Lazarus:

          Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, ‘Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.’ 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, ‘Lazarus, come out.’ 44 The man who had died came out. (John 11:42-44 ESV)

          Thus, Jesus here admits that whenever he performs such miracles, they are accomplished because of his Father ‘always hearing him.’ This undermines what you are claiming.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Can you image Elisha, Elijah’s disciple in 2 Kings 4:28-37 say ” Son, Elisha healed you, rise and make your bed”?

          Peter healed the man on the basis of Jesus’ name, the one whom God sent. The power originates with God, not Jesus. If you refuse to acknowledge this extra-step of reasoning, then your argument falls apart regardless. Another act of healing in the book of Acts is attributed to, not Jesus, but Paul:

          “Paul visited him and prayed, and putting his hands on him healed him.” (Acts 28:8)

          Did Paul heal the man? Yes, he actually laid his hands upon him. Did Jesus heal the man? Yes, Paul prayed for this upon the basis of Jesus’ name. Did God heal the man? Yes, he actually provided the healing miracle through Jesus and through Paul.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Jesus asks to be glorified together with the Father with the glory He possessed “with” (para) the Father from eternity.

          No, he asks for the glory he possessed “before the world existed.” That is not necessarily eternity. “World” (Gr. cosmos) generally refers to humankind, not earth per se, and certainly not the entire universe. Even at the creation of the earth the angels were around:

          Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? . . . when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4,7 ESV)

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          True some created things are worshiped, but only the creator of the universe deserve the ultimate worship. When I used Only God is to be worship, it means only God deserve ultimate adoration, serving, prayers, thanks giving, and praise. This is exacting the kind of worship Jesus is getting in Revelation 5 to which the founders of Jehovah’s Witness taught and agree on.

          And that is where your strawman fallacy begins. Early Jehovah’s Witnesses certainly did not ‘teach and agree with’ giving Jesus “ultimate worship.” You are 100% wrong on that Prayson.

          But back to the Bible. Once you acknowledge lesser, relative forms of worship in the scriptures that are indeed proper, your argument becomes far weaker than how you presented it initially.

          It becomes extremely difficult to differentiate between the worship Jesus receives and the worship other ones, such as God-anointed kings, received. In your examples of John ‘falling down to worship’ the angel, I don’t see where it says that John gave him “ultimate adoration, serving, prayers, thanks giving, and praise”, do you?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          You oversimplified worship thus missed the point that Jesus receives worship much more than felling down.

          You were the one that oversimplified worship. That was the point of my Revelation 3:9 example, which has now forced you to differentiate between what you call “ultimate worship” and other acceptable kinds. Only your definitions are lacking.

          You do realize that the old kings, who were worshipped along with God, also received glory, praise and honor, don’t you? And while that was acceptable, John’s falling down before an angel, without praises, singing and so forth was rebuked.

          The question is, is such ‘worship’ towards Jesus ever qualified? Yes it is; even in passages you’ve already quoted. For example:

          “Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:9-11)

          When one gives such honor and praise to God’s anointed king, it really means giving glory to God himself, the one who appointed him as such (just as in the case of the ancient kings).

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Even though the modern Jehovah’s Witnesses hide(The Yearbook of 1969 p.50) or misquote(Watchtower 1971 December 15 p.760) this truth, Jesus, the Might God and Almighty God, God the Father are worshiped together in a way that is NOT the same as David, Saul, angels, Peter,or Philadelphia Christians.

          I’m sorry Prayson, but your bias is showing up because your conclusions are not supported by the facts. Aside from the scores of publications produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses from the very beginning that directly contradict what you are claiming, the phrase “worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus” is no different than the Bible’s use of that word toward God and the Israelite king. Remember that passage, which I’ve repeatedly brought to your attention?

          all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped Jehovah, and the king. (1 Chronicles 29:20 ASV)

          According to your reasoning then, those Israelites must have been worshipping the king to the very same extent as God himself, seeing absolutely no difference between the two. Their king was literally God himself.

          Ignoring this doesn’t make it go away. This is how the Bible speaks of worship. It uses it to varying degrees, and it has to do more with the inward intent of the worshipper than with specific acts associated with it. It is the intent that determines whether or not it’s appropriate.

          Thank you for considering my response. Sorry this is so long. 🙂

          TJ

      1. Dear TJ,

        Thank you for your last comment. I have to admit you are an incredible thinker and the last post showed how equipped you are in logic and Scriptures. I will soon responded to your last comment.

        Meanwhile: I have enjoyed, I am enjoying, our long comments but I think it would be great if we turn our Comments into Posts so that everyone,both Jehovah’s Witnesses and Non-Jehovah’s Witnesses could benefit from our discussion for each response to another has be so long.

        Moreover in the posts I would like if you agree to write why Jesus is not God, while I will write why Jesus is God.

        The Article will be called “Reasons Why Jesus is/is not God?” Dialogue between Jehovah’s Witness and a Calvinist.

        I will go through mostly the same things but in broader and clear sense:

        1. Jesus is Honor as the God(Worship, Glory, Prayer, etc)
        2. Jesus has the Names of the God(Lord, Yahweh, Savior, Shepherd etc)
        3. Jesus has the Attribute of the God(all power, all knowing, all present etc)
        4. Jesus has does Deeds of the God(creation, Forgive sin, Calms the Sea, etc)
        5. Jesus seat on the God’s sit(Throne etc)

        And I would like you also to respond, as you have done thus far in your wonderful intelligent last comments, why you think I am wrong to conclude Jesus is God. And more over why Jesus is Angel Michael, Jesus being Jehovah’s creation.

        I will give you access to my blog,that you could also be a co-editor of the article.

        In this way we can lay out Why I believe Jesus is Yahweh, and Why you believe Jesus is not Yahweh in gentle and loving manner.

        Let me know what you think.

        In Christ Jesus,

        Prayson

        • Hello Prayson,

          That sounds like a nice opportunity to explain our sincere beliefs. I’d be happy to contribute what I can.

          TJ

        • Dear TJ,

          I am on the process of writing an article on the response of your objections.

          But as I do that, I will post a skeleton outline of the arguments on the Deeds of Jesus and I also will like to address your “representation issue” found in Luke 7 and Matthew 8, Worship and Salvation here.

          Representation issue:

          Amazingly I discover that it is Human representing Human. If Jesus is the truly, complete and visible representation of God, then Jesus need to be God. For only God can fully represent God.

          Jesus is the first and the last, Just like the Father. Was in the begging just like the Father. Jesus can represent God because he himself is like what doubting Thomas will say “Our Lord and Our God”

          Worship:
          When it comes to Worship, I discover that “NWT” 1 Chronicles 29:20 does not support what you are claiming, why is that so? I had to do a lot of reading on Watchtower teaching on Jesus and Worship and what I found out as my “bias is showing up” the following to which I do not think “worship” here can not be brushed under the carpet of worship like that of Israelite kings.

          “Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshipped, and properly so. While he was not the God, Jehovah, he was a God.” (Watchtower 7/15/1898, p. 2337)

          All creatures in heaven and earth shall worship Jesus as he worships the Father. (WT 8/15/1941, p.252)

          Salvation:
          The understanding of Salvation is important here. Only God and God alone can break the power of sin and bring us to eternal life. When I write Jesus saves, it does not mean the save meaning as that doctors do by saving peoples lives, or by Israelite Ehud and Othniel.

          Thus the Argument will go like Athanasius:

          1. No creature can redeem another creature.
          2. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses(Modern Arius), Jesus Christ is a creature.
          3.Therefore, according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus Christ can not redeem humanity.

          Or in the way it was before:

          1. Only God can save,
          2. Jesus saves
          3. Therefore Jesus is God

          Note: “Save” here stands the for breaking of the power of sin and bring us to eternal life.

          I will try to bring in more Scholars into the topic on the new post on the responds to your objections, so that our readers can enjoy the richness of this discussion.

          Yours in Christ,
          Prayson

    • Your logic is screwy. “If Jesus is an angel he is no better than the fallen angel, Satan” is absurd. Lots of angels are better than Satan. Satan is wicked. There are millions maybe billions of righteous angels that have stayed loyal to Jehovah. Michael the archangel is one of them. Also, Revelation indicates that Michael is going to take the Devil and the demons out. So, obviously Michael the archangel is better than Satan.

      • Hi Robert,

        Indeed it is suppose to be absurd(rather odd). That is why it is called Reductio ad Absurdum form of argument. If Jesus is angel Michael, then He is no better than the Devil. In plain language, Jesus IF an angel, then he is worst than the Devil himself.

        I agree with you that Michael is better than the devil, what I do not agree is that Jesus is Michael, or an angel. Because from what Jesus is claiming in the Gospel “to be honored like honoring the Father(God)” and other claims, if Jesus is an angel then he is no better/worst than the Devil.

        In this way I can show that Jesus is not angel/Michael. Affirming that it is odd to think of Jesus as worst than the devil, means my argument has succeeded to bring out the absurdity to which was intentionally intended thus you can not avoid the conclusion that Jesus is not an angel/Michael.

        Let me know if you want more information or explanation on it. I am so open for input and exchange of knowledge.

        In Christ,
        Prayson

    • Pingback: Twitted by Proteusiq

    Comments are closed.