Dialogue Between A Christian And Negative Atheist:
This dialogue is fictional but inspired by the comments in this blog. Enjoy the dialogue between Christian, Negative Atheist, and Positive Atheist.
Christian: I have offered you six arguments for existence of God, what do you think about them.
Negative atheist: They are flaw, can you not see that? If you can’t then maybe that is your problem.
Christian: How are they flaw?
Negative atheist: There is NO evidence that can prove ANY god exists
Christian: But can you at least show me where the flaw in these six arguments for existence of God?
Negative atheist: It is just flaw, haven’t you read the mocking, jeering, and insulting of on these arguments found in the”clever atheistic bloggers and youtube clips, the arguments are just flaw, they have being refuted! Can you not see that?
Christian: Please share at least one flaw from these atheistic bloggers
Negative atheist: Kalam argument example, Everything that begin to exist has a cause. Where does god come from…what caused him to exist??
Christian: I think you misunderstood the argument. It does not argue for everything that exist has a cause, but everything that BEGIN to exist. God did NOT BEGIN to exist thus needs no cause.
Negative atheist: Then kalam argument is just another God of the Gap, everything that you believers can not explain is easily blamed to God. “God did it!”
Christian: That is false, Kalam argument leads as to a beginningless, uncaused, timeless, spaceless, immaterial cause of the beginning of time and material( the Universe) we, Christian call God.
Negative atheist: Yah yah! Have you not read that scientists can show that something can come from nothing given the laws of physics.
Christian: Is that not amazing, what part of nothing do “your” science sources do not understand!
Negative atheist: Well, molecules collided together and boom, we have the big bang.
Christian: Well, but there we already have something “Molecules”. How could that be something from nothing?
Negative atheist: Well, I am not a physicist, but I still think, kalam argument is a flaw
Christian: Yet you failed to show how so.
Negative atheist: Aha! this moral argument is just another “flaw”. Who say I need God to be good, I have being an atheist and good folk for over 40 years without believing in God.
Christian: Again you misunderstood the argument. If God does not exist, objective moral value and duties do not exist. The argument is not about whether you believe in God or not, but on God existence. It does not matter whether you belief in God or not. Example 2+2 =4 whether we belief it or not.
Negative atheist: Bla bla bla, the problem with you is that you keep saying I misunderstood the argument. My youtube, wikipedia and bloggers atheists friends agree with me that Christianity is just a myth, you do not have any arguments, we atheists are so clever not to waste our precious time with you non-logical people. It’s impossible to debate with you deluded believers.
Christian: Okay! Let say I am non-logical self-deluded Christian, Can you give good arguments/reason for me being an atheist?
Negative atheist: I am a negative atheist, I do not have to give any argument!
Christian: Oh! Okay, so I could as well be negative Christian, in that way I do not have to give any arguments for Christianity.
Negative atheist: No, the burden of proof is always on the believers, are you not a believer?
Christian: Yes, but a negative believer then. Because I have absence of believe in atheism.
Negative atheist: I suppose you could do that!
Christian: Okay, is that then not two rabbits in the hole? that we all now hold beliefs that needs no supported
Positive atheist: I have support! If God exist, then why so much evil! Evil and suffering proves that God does not exist
Christian: How is the presence of evil and suffering eliminate God?
Positive atheist: Your God is a all-loving, all-knowing and all-power. If that is true then your God will not allow people, mostly innocent little children to suffer.
Christian: That is a big assumption of God your making. How do you know what God will or will not allow?
Positive atheist: Because “he/she/it” is all-loving then he will not allow suffering.
Christian: Could God in His all-loving allow suffering for a purpose/reason?
Positive atheist: I do not see any reason why God would allow suffering!
Christian: My question is not If we can know or see God’s reason, but could God allow suffering for a reason?
Positive atheist: May be!
Christian: Well then the presence of evil does not eliminate God. More over, one has to assume that we are God’s pet and all that God want is to make His pets happy, is that not a huge assumption?
Positive atheist: Is that not what Christian’s say, “God wants us happy“.
Christian: In deed, but that is not the whole truth. Happiness that Christian God wants, according to the bible is the delight in Him in the midst of everything, including suffering.
Positive atehist: Oh, that is new!
Christian: More over, if God does not exist, suffering and evil is really at the bottom a delusion.
Positive atheist: How so?
Christian: Have you not read The Dawkinist Delusion, book, He say “at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.” Thus I think the presence of evil is an argument for God and not against.
Positive atheist: Yeh! But what about evolution!
Christian: Even if evolution is true, it does nothing to the existence of God. Could not God create a universe that evolved?
Positive atheist: But the creationist sites say God created the world in 24 hour-7 days.
Christian: I think one is not bound in reading the Biblical account of creation literal. Both Saint Augustine of Hippo(A.D 354 – 430) and Philo of Alexandri(20 BC – 50 AD), a Jewish scholar argued for allegorical reading of the account.
Positive atheist: Well, God is just a wishful thinking, one grows out of it, just like I did.
Christian: It being wishful thinking does not make God existence true or false. Can we look at the arguments I present.
Positive atheist: What arguments? there is just no proof for God. Which part do you not understand?
End:
With All I Am 
In fact i don’t understand anything. Is really God exist or not! Tell me please, are you belive to God? Are you jesus, chritian or muslim?
P.S.Robert you have good blog.
God really do exist Abay Otar. I am Christian
But according to Christian theology, the “God of Abraham” is Jesus, or at least includes him. So those who deny Jesus, also deny the God of Abraham.
It’s bizarre that you could worship the right god, but still not enter heaven, yet that’s the position you’re defending. No wonder your fellow Christians reject it.
Also, insofar as the basis of the “theological difference” are the various scriptures each religion adheres to – scriptures said to originate with the “God of Abraham” – this fact turns him into a mass prankster. So why would the “God of Abraham” produce so much confusion?
Prayson,
The difference is not merely over the coming of the messiah, as you’ve attempted to reduce it the question to, but whether that messiah is also god. Again, I ask, can a Muslim or a Jew enter heaven with the Christian? After all, according to you, they all worship the same god. If not, it would seem the mere “theological difference” is more substantial, since condemning someone to hell over such a difference seems petulent to the extreme.
No, no. I’m talking about Brahman.
If you research this god, you’ll find that Brahman “is the signifying name given to the concept of the unchanging, infinite, immanent and transcendent reality that is the Divine Ground of all being.”
And that it is “the God in the highest sense: formless, infinite and eternal. As being formless, God is neither nether male nor female. God is beyond space and time, and it is changeless and it is the source of consciousness. Brahman cannot exist, as it is the existence it self. Brahman is all knowing and it is knowledge it self.”
(I would include the links, but doing so seems to cause my post to be consumed in a black hole.)
Now you’re getting it! Who is to say Bak or Rimbo do not exist? Or both together?
Dear Robert,
There is a big difference between worshiping the God of Abraham and entering heaven. If believe in Jesus Christ(the God and redeemer of our sins) as the only way to enter Heaven, then a denial of Him(by Judaism and Islam) means no heaven.
The God of Abraham condemning someone to hell over such a difference(Jesus as the Redeemer) is not petulent to the extreme. Because all human have sins(broken all the commandments), and if the God of Abraham is the holy and just God,according to Torah(Judism)/Old Testament(Christians) and Sura(Muslim) then all are justly condemned to hell.
Christian believe that Christ Jesus death on the cross was a payment for all whom believe in and follow Him, He took the condemnation for thus whom believe in Him(John 3:16).
I have to read more on Brahman concept, before I go more into it.
Oh!I have just made another new god, Mibor, timeless, spaceless and immaterial, now we have three gods in a pool of
many…three gods 🙂Let me try without any links:
To your questions, Christians emphatically assert yes. Muslims (and Jews) emphatically assert no. Sorry, this is beyond a mere difference in theological understanding, a point your fellow Christians agree with me on. And you’ve not answered their objections (or mine).
The Hindu god Brahman possesses those attributes.
First, Steve and I pointed out early on that your “arguments for God” could apply to any number of gods, even ones we conceived of right now.
Steve: “But they are also true of thousands of other gods, and they are also true of any creator you can care to conjure up for the sake of argument. They are NOT solely specific to the Christian God, and THAT is my point.”
Me: “This concedes that the arguments are not for God, but can be applied to a number of conceivable deities. What’s more, these deities are not exhausted by those you list.”
So, contrary to your statement, we never committed to naming a god out of a pool of many gods.
Second, you failed to answer my earlier challenge: “Show me where the arguments demand that the god must be known to humanity now. Show me where the arguments have named that god. Show me where the arguments logically disprove Bak’s existence. Show me where the arguments mandate an anthropomorphic god.”
Finally, it would seem you’re running down your own rabbit hole in ignoring these pertinent questions. 😉
Dear Robert,
Thank you for the comment. Are we not in the wrong article?
The God whom Jews, Muslim and Christian claim to worship is the God of Abraham.
Judaism and Christianity defer in whether the God of Abraham’s promised messiah, the anointed Savior and King in the line of Davidic Kingdom has already come(Christ Jesus) or not.
A group of Jews beginning ca. A.D 30s believe that Jesus of Nazareth was(is) in deed the promised messiah of Isaiah 53 while the other Jews(now Judaism) are still waiting.
The group of Jews that believed in Jesus(known as The Way) began a mission of spreading the news and living a life in like manner of Jesus, the Nazarene whom they believed was “the anointed” promised Messiah. They were nicknamed “Christian” meaning “the follower of the anointed one”.
Islam started over 600 year after Christianity, with the claim that deny Jesus of Nazareth as Christ(promised messiah),also denies Jesus death by the crucifixion but hold Jesus as the just a mere prophet of “the God of Abraham” whom they worship, born of a virgin Mary and that Jesus was sinless.
At the bottom all Three religions believe in the God of Abraham, thus a known as Abrahamic religions.
Hindu God, Brahma
(N.B Do not confuse Brahma the God, with the Brahma of Philosophical Wisdom, the are two different things)
Brahma,the God fits the creator, but not timeless(He born from a golden egg) and immaterial(Shiva cut one of Brahma’s heads) and not space-less according to Hindu earlier literature.
Brahma the God, is claimed to be creator, which does not makes sense Philosophically because the cause of the Universe(from Kalam Argument) ought to be timeless, spaceless, and immaterial to which Brahma fails as a candidate.
Making gods
I just made a god who is timeless, spaceless, and immaterial, lets call it, Rimbo! 🙂 Now we have two, your Bak and my Rimbo in the pool of
many...two gods:)Hej Robert, I really do not know, because I do not see them even in spams 😦 If it more than two links, wordpress usually sent it to spams/or approve. But I can not see your comments anywhere 😦
Prayson, my comments in our other discussion aren’t appearing. Not sure why.